He ISNT AFRICAN AMERICAN
Here is the definition I was taught in Sociology 101
African-American: In person in the United States of America who is a descendant of the African slaves AND the European slave holders. Ethincally different from Africans and Europeans but containing the genens of both groups.
This dude is a Contenetial African
Do people seriously think you have to be black to be african? Thats so dumb in my opinion. Thats Like saying you have to be white to be american. If someone is born and raised in Africa then they are African! Just like if someone is born and Raised in America.....guess what....they are American! His color should have nothing to do with it. But I guess this shows the ignorance of the people in this world!
So if he's considered a White African-American because he's a Caucasian that was born in Africa and then became a U.S. citizen, what does that make the black (non-African) people that were born and raised in the U.S.? Just simply Black Americans? Not trying to be a smart a**. I'm asking a legitimate question.
@ Topic
Africa is comprised of white, black, and mixed-race people. Therefore, if a WHITE person born and raised in Africa gets U.S. citizenship, I believe that they SHOULD be recognized as an AFRICAN-AMERICAN...
The United States defines "AA" as ONLY being black people, but if you use common sense, it should refer to anyone of both African AND American descent, REGARDLESS of race!! Personally, I NEVER use the "AA" term... I always say "Black American!"
this is kinda stupid, because yes in a global view TECHNICALLY he can be viewed as an African American like Charlize Theron as somebody pointed out, but by the American definition of African American, which is just an euphemism for black person, he is not...why argue about it? I go to school with and live near many black Africans that are now American citizens and I don't know one that identifies themselves as African American. If I moved to China and became a citizen I would not call myself American Chinese...America is the only place where we do stupid $#!+ like this...
--------------------------- Its still trickin’ if you got it
We are going to be slaves again if we don't wake up. There is nothing Afrikan about that white dude at all. And for the record, Charlize Theron is a European born in Afrika. I'm a black man, I am an Afrikan born in America. Stop identifying yourself away from Afrika. Read, or at least YouTube; Dr. John Henrik Clark, Dr. Ben, Marimba Ani, Ray Hagins, Ivan Van Sertima, Amos Wilson. WAKE UP BLACK PEOPLE!!!
malletdiva02 is correct
African American is for decesendents of American slaves and free peoples of color pre-1865, this could arguably be expanded to slaveowners (white or black).
The man in question is Mozimbiquian-American (a white one). People who immigrate from Africa, black or white are not African American..And most AA's who are knowledgeble on thier history will correct you on this..
Barack Obama =Kenyan American (1/2) Michelle Obama=African American
Its not complicated
lol Now he oughtta know African American mean something totally different in the U.S. It's people with black African ancestry, the true native people of Africa. Not Europreans that came to Africa and colonized but I don't see why his class making a huge issue about it. I think it's kinda funny and cute that he calls himself an African American (even though we know he ain't lol)
There is more to this stoty than what's being told. Why would people be so offended that he wants to call himself African American? There are more important things to concern ourselves with than this nonsense. I realize there are many different cultures in Africa that can call themselves Africans. But just as Native Americans were here before anyone else, whites and other cultures who settled in America don't refer to themselves as American Indians. This guy had to be doing something else to piss people off to be harassed and ultimately suspended at that Med school.
How stupid are some of the people making comments on here? (With the exception of pinkdiamondprincezz)The term "African American" has nothing to do with being born in Africa. It was coined by Black American people and it identifies native Black American people of indigenous African ancestral origin via slavery. We are not indigenous Americans even though we were born here and this guy in the lawsuit is not indigenous African, even though he was born there. He is from Portugal in Europe. He is of European White origin. He is White/European that was born in Africa. He is not an indgenous African
And just to make clear ..NO ONE REGARDLESS OF RACE who immigrates from Africa is an African American..I know that sounds contridictory, but its not. That was not the spirit in which the term was invented (and yes it was invented by American blacks). It was common for Americans to hypen thier nation orgin (i.e Irish American, Italian-American, German-American)
Africa is not a country its a continent. Its senseless for Africans (whether blk or white) that know thier national orgin to call themselves AA. They would simply be known as Nigerian-American, Kenyan-American, etc.
In America, he is NOT an African American. He damn well knows that this is a classification for RACE (basically defined below) and not for NATIONALITY nor ETHNICITY….. Nice try though!
ETHNICITY – Is defined by your Cultural background (ie, Latino, Asian, - Several things from your heritage that connects you to a group of people. This includes but is not limited to: traditions, languages, religion, etc.)
NATIONALITY – Is defined by the country of which you are a citizen.
RACE – Is defined by your physical characteristics produced by your DNA, ie, hair texture, eye shape, skin color, etc, that associates you specifically with a group of people.
Why is a white "African American" so shocking? There are BLACK EUROPEANS. Blacks aren't the only ones residing in Africa. If they migrate to the USA, then they technically become African American, while technically, black people who were born here are only of African descent, as opposed to being African American. Most of us know nothing at all about Africa, its people, its culture, etc. Most of us don't even like ourselves or our people. Just watch our men degrade us, then leave us for other races. So I don't get MTO's "" marks on Africa-American like no one else owns the patent.
@105 - maybe you're the idiot here, know your role.
Secondly this is a good discussion to have. Black by definition means the absence of color. So how can blacks be "colored" ppl? Only my hair is black, so does hair color determine your race...because that is what being called black would tell me. This brings to the forefront the most fundamental part of racism in Amerikkka. Amerikkka created the term black (also the term Hispanic in the 60s). We are of the African Ether-9 hair follicle, regardless of where u are born if you don't have it then you arent of the Original Man of Africa.
Dude is of caucasoid decent, but maybe his case will bring about a change in the way ppl are "class"isfied here. He may be born in Africa, but in this country he is White. Hell in Africa he is White. The Brits/Amerikkkans wouldnt have it any other way. But if he wins I think I should be "class"isfied as a brown African/Native American from America. lol, 4 real! I want to see that on applications and urrything!
Black American and African American are the same thing. Whites are not called "american". When they refer to each other as Irish-American, German-American, etc. Collectively known as "whites' ----------- Black Americans are not Africans, we just have ancestors from Africa. Whites have ancestors from different countries as well yet their labeled American. It's really stupid. The Africans should be called 'African American' and we should be labeled 'Black American' or 'American'
@MISSJNS....FYI, Blacks in Europe are asked to identify themselves as AFRO-CARRIBEAN or AFRICAN decent, when asked about their race, NOT Black European.
Paulo Serodio’s NATIONALITY is African ASWELL AS American (he’s entitled to dual citizenship) however, his RACE is WHITE and he wouldn’t have to look too far to find his ancestry in Portugal, Europe, as that’s where his family name originates from.
Don't get shyt twisted, he's just trying to challenge the system but he really doesn't have a case. Sorry Paulo!
Stupid black people like Dreayonn doesn't even know that Black people actually created the term African American and presented it to the government for our classification. This is why we need more public school funding in urban areas. Our black people are growing up to be complete idiots.The term "African American" has nothing to do with being born in Africa. It identifies native Black American people of indigenous African ancestral origin via slavery. We are not indigenous Americans even though we were born here and this guy in the lawsuit is not African
@drayonne
Your very misguided. Whites celebrate thier heritage. Ever heard of St. Patricks day? Thats an Irish-American holiday. Cinco de Mayo, Mexican-American. Columbus Day, Italian-American. Youve never seen German-American festivals? These are called ethnicities.
You also dont share the same lineage as an African. Aficans are Nigerian-American, Kenyan-American, etc. You dont have a right to deny them the heritage of THIER ancestors. My question is what is your ethnicity, not your race, but your ethnicity? The term African-American was created by American blacks to fill that void.
LOL @ dragqueenmommy/pinkdiamondprincezz inflammatory but somewhat correct comments. However, this guy’s birth right is Mozambiquian, therefore he does hold an African NATIONALITY but his RACE is and always will be white/European. Period!
However, more importantly, whatever he classifies himself as, he should not have been mis-treated by anybody and the law-suit should be based on and needs to identity whether he was ill treated for claiming to be different. If his claim of being discriminated against is linked to him being denied certain services open to “African Americans” then let’s not waste more time and just throw this nonsense out of court.
@dcboi....Obviously, you have challenges reading so I will repost my last post in caps, so you can read slowly and try to comprend what's being said...
HOWEVER, THIS GUY'S BIRTH RIGHT IS MOZAMBIQUIAN, THEREFORE HE DOES HOLD AN AFRICAN NATIONALITY...
"an" being the operative word.
And just to correct you on some mis-information you have provided, oh wise one... ST Patrick's day is an IRISH holiday, nothing to do with Americans, it was brought over by the Irish and is celebrated everywhere in the world, where there are colonies of Irish ex-pats.
I mis-read the quote, you are correct he holds an African nationality..
St. Patricks day is which people of Irish desenct highlights thier heritage. (See Irish Americans [link to external website] )Does that sound better.
Just how Cinco de Mayo is for people of Mexican heritage, and Juneteeth is for people of African American heritage.
@Dreyonne I understand your point, you just dont understand mine. American is a nationality. Everyones considered American (Black, White, Asian, etc.) Im talking about ethinicty and heritage.
Africans refer to each other by thier heritage (Nigerian, Somalian, Ethiopian, etc.) They correct you when you call them AA. They know thier national orgin, so there is no point in taking on the AA name. They would use go in the tradition of hypened nationalities (i.e. Irish-American) Germans and French dont lump themselves as "euro-American" simply because they have ancestry in Europe.
i understand where hes comming from,he should put "white",instead "white-african-american".he was born in africa but he still white by race b/c of his portuguese ancestry,he got american citizenship but he cant consider himself "american" atleast he was born and raised in american but hes american by paper,not by birth.if the application ask me where i was born,i would put "new york" and/or "united states",if i got arrested,they would put "white-hispanic" but i dont have white skin,i got olive skin and i got caucasian facial features but im mixed with 3 races(black,white and monogolian...
aka taino indian and native american).if u ask any latinos whats there race is,they would tell u where their family come from and/or they will consider themselves "white" or "indian",they aint gonna tell u they black b/c they dont want nothing 2 do with their black ancestry which is fukced-up.in reality,my race is black but i got white face,olive skin,long wavy hair,brown/hazel eyes,monogolian high cheek bones and jaw,almond eyes and black girl's body so i would put "black-latino/hispanic" on my application so why i wouldnt deny?.even the white south africans move 2 the states and they would..
down white as their race and their nationality is african just like his nationality.same thing as anyone is from the arabic-speaking countries such as morrocco,egypt,tunisia,sudan,alegeria and etc.,they would put "white" b/c they also dont wanna nothing 2 do with their black race so what do u think americans call them "san-ni99ers" 4?.
@LA_NENITA....A naturalized American CAN consider themselves American, there's just certain things they can't do, ie, run for President
America is quite unique, much like Brazil. With the increased mixtures of several different races, it’s become harder to define people by race and we are increasingly relying on ethnicity (rather than race) to define a group of people. It will take a few more life times but can’t wait to see the day when labelling people simply isn’t necessary because as I’ve said so many times, only 1 race really matters and that’s the HUMAN RACE.
@DREAYONN…I also foun
He is an African-American Period
African American is an Entirely Fabricated Term their is scientific base for it. All Humans that walk the Earth are African when you go to the Genetic Links.
Now looking at this from a Geopolitical Anthropology then Man was Born in African which makes him African Period He could be White, Asian,Black Martian or what ever. There are Black people In the South Pacific that are 100% Indigenous to that area of the world and they are Black.
Please Read: [link to external website]
@Madeleine
Who said African American had anything to do with getting off a boat? Even Native-Americans use a hyphen. If you have so much pride in your ancestors, what would stop a Black person from nigeria from being confused with you, a Black person who are a descendent of a slave? Your both black. African American is a term the actually Americanizes black desendents of slaves.
dcboi why yes I do the term is credited to Jesse Jackson during his run for Democratic Nomination for President.
I never talk BS or pull anything from my Ass. This term has no Race Basis to it when the African Continent has more than on race on it. You can check this with the US State Department When a Person Migrates from Africa regardless of color are Considered African from which African Country they are. Tresa Heinz Kerry is also African-American she was born in Portuguese East Africa, at the time a colony and now the independent nation of Mozambique. Many years ago in the 70's she regularly referred herself “African-American”
-Sarge
@AFSOCSARGE
You just proved my point that your talking out your ass. Who came up with the term is neither here nor there, what matters is the meaning its given.
African American dosent mean race, it means ethnicity..If it was a race blacks in the world would be called African American. Please dont debate the term until you know the difference between race and ethnicity. Otherwise you'll come off looking like a dumbass...again
@ AFSOCSARGE….You’re going off at a tangent.
Paulo Serodio’s race is NOT African-American and never will be. If you have trouble believing or understanding why, then please check the US Government Census questions of Race of 2000 (on the link below), which classified blacks ONLY under, “African American, black or negro”. European descent was not even sub-categorized, they were just considered white.
Assuming Paulo Serodio has dual citizenship, then he would be a Mozambiquian National and an American Citizen but NOT an African-American. Furthermore, when Jesse Jackson started using this term, I can almost guarantee you, it was not to give white Africans an identity in America!!! LOL!
dcboi 1st making insulting disparaging remarks does not prove anything or make you correct which you are not, it only proves your full lack of knowledge and total "Ignorance". I based my statements on facts and not conjecture, with zero insults towards anyone. You began this with insults then ask me a question, then when I give you a fully creditable answer you claim it makes no difference, Not once do you substantiate your argument. You are an "Ignorant Uneducated Fool" so stop wasting my time I refuse to recognize or acknowledge Insipid Drones you simpleton.
-Sarge
1st I never claimed anything about "Race" Period, The Man is A White African that has Migrated to America where did I refer to race? He was born on the Continent Of Africa Asians, Whites, Arabs, and Blacks are born everyday in Africa. So you are saying they are not Africans? When a person is born in America are they not American ? I'm not talk about Race I'm referring to Birth Origin.
-Sarge
Divaonadime
You just proved my Point "Race" vs "Origin of Birth" He is African, as I stated the term "African-American" is a Term that was coined in the late 1980's that has no Geopolitical or Anthropological Basis for it. It is common and logical to claim ones Nation or Geographical region as self reference.
Please View: [link to external website]
I love being Black. I love being called Black. I love being an American.
I love being a Black American, but as a Black man in this country I think it's a shame that every few years we get a change of name.
Since those first ships arrived here from Africa that came across the sea there were already Black men in this country who were free.
And as for those that came over here on those terrible boats, they were called [EXPLETIVE] and slave and told what to do and how to behave.
And then master started trippin' and doing his midnight tippin', down to the slave shacks where he forced he and Great-Great Grandma to be together, and if Great-Great Grandpa protested, he got tarred and feathered.
And at the same time, the Black men in the country who were free, were mating with the tribes like the Apache and the Cherokee.
And as a result of all that, we're a parade of every shade.
And as in this late day and age, you can be sure, they ain't too many of us in this country whose bloodline is pure.
But, according to a geological, geographical, genealogy study published in Time Magazine, the Black African people were the first on the scene, so for what it's worth, the Black African people were the first on earth and through migration, our characteristics started to change, and rearrange, to adapt to whatever climate we migrated to.
And that's how I became me, and you became you.
So, if we gonna go back, let's go all the way back, and if Adam was Black and Eve was Black, then that kind of makes it a natural fact that everybody in America is an African American.
Everybody in Europe is an African European; everybody in the Orient is an African Asian and so on and so on, that is, if the origin of man is what we're gonna go on.
And if one drop of Black blood makes you Black like they say, then everybody's Black anyway.
So quit trying to change my identity.
I'm already who I was meant to be I'm a Black American, born and raised.
And brother James Brown wrote a wonderful phrase, "Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud! Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud!"
Cause I'm proud to be Black and I ain't never lived in Africa, and 'cause my Great-Great Granddaddy on my Daddy's side did, don't mean I want to go back.
Now I have nothing against Africa, it's where some of the most beautiful places and people in the world are found.
But I've been blessed to go a lot of places in this world, and if you ask me where I choose to live, I pick America, hands down.
Now, by and by, we were called Negroes, and after while, that name has vanished.
Anyway, Negro is just how you say 'black' in Spanish.
Then, we were called colored, but [EXPLETIVE], everybody's one color or another, and I think it's a shame that we hold that against each other.
And it seems like we reverted back to a time when being called Black was an insult, even if it was another Black man who said it, a fight would result, cause we've been so brainwashed that Black was wrong, So that even the yellow niggahs and black niggahs couldn't get along.
But then, came the 1960s when we struggled and died to be called equal and Black, and we walked with pride with our heads held high and our shoulders pushed back, and Black was beautiful.
But, I guess that wasn't good enough, cause now here they come with some other stuff.
Who comes up with this [EXPLETIVE] anyway?
Was it one, or a group of niggahs sitting around one day?
Feelin' a little insecure again about being called Black and decided that African American sounded a little more exotic.
Well, I think you were being a little more neurotic.
It's that same mentality that got "Amos and Andy" put off the air, cause they were embarrassed about the way the character's spoke.
And as a result of that action, a lot of wonderful Black actors ended up broke.
When we were just laughin' and have fun about ourselves.
Why you keep trying to attach yourself to a continent, where if you got the chance and you went, most people there would even claim you as one of them; as a pure bread daughter or son of them.
Your heritage is right here now, no matter what you call yourself or what you say And a lot of people died to make it that way.
And if you think America is a leader on inequality and suffering and grievin', how come there so many people comin' and so few leavin'?
Rather than all this 'find fault with America' [EXPLETIVE] you promotin', if you want to change something, use your privilege, get to the polls!
Commence to votin'!
God knows we've earned the right to be called American Americans and be free at last.
And rather than you movin' forward progress, you dwelling in the past.
We've struggled too long; we've come too far.
Instead of focusing on who we were, let's be proud of who we are.
We are the only people whose name is always a trend.
When is this [EXPLETIVE] gonna end
@AFSOCHARGE….I’m sorry but you’re making no sense. OF COURSE the term “African American” today has it’s base in Race and Ethnicity. Did you even fill in the Census form in 2000?????
Whether you choose to accept it or not. The General consensus in America AND the official US Government Census refers to Americans with BLACK African ancestry as African-Americans. PERIOD!!!! Now as I mentioned above, due to increasing numbers of different races mixing, we are starting to rely on ethnicity rather than race to classify people. However, in Paulo Seriodio’s case, it is black and white. He is of Portuguese descent and African by birth. Therefore if he is asked his NATIONALITY he can by all means state: Mozambiquian or American. However, his RACE is clearly white/European. If you and Mr Seriodo are convinced to the contrary, I would ask him to take an Ancestral DNA test and provide it as evidence in court
who knows he may find some black in there and in America the 1 drop rule applies!
BTW: Using the argument that we’re all derived from Africa, whilst true, is futile in this case and shows you’re grasping at straws LOL! And Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition called for marginalized members of society to join with AA’s to get a bigger piece of the pie (and of course, help his presidential aspirations LOL!). However, educated, wealthy whites of colonial ancestry did NOT figure in his equation!
You see brothas and sistahs no matter how hard we work or how far we advance there will always be droves of coons and racists who want to set us back. This is why we need to get together and decidewhat we call ourselves. Most of us here in America can trace our roots back to a relative that survived the middle passage ,worked on southern plantation,endured the rape of a satanic slave master etc...We collectively possess certain combinations of phenotypic features,culture and manner of speaking born of our collective experience whether you're from Compton or Carolina. If some disingenous cracka(This particular individual not all caucasians) can't make it among his own people and needs to use such deplorable a tactic then so be it. We know who we are as people and we continue to grow and heal the scars from hundreds of years of being denied education and social opportunities in this societies. Study your history and be merciless to those who would steal and belittle our experience and profane our culture with their sinister ambitions. He will never be a true brotha !
PEACE TO DIVAS ON DIME !! LET EM KNOW WHAT IT IS !!
I'm an American why because I was born in America
American is not my Race Period So Nowhere in a US Cencus would you see that because it is My Origin of Birth Not my Race.
The term black people usually refers to a racial group of humans with a dark brown skin color, but it has also been used to categorise a number of diverse populations into one common group. Some definitions of the term include only people of relatively recent Sub Saharan African descent (see African diaspora). Among the members of this group, dark skin color is typically accompanied by the expression of natural afro-hair texture. Other definitions of the term Black extend to any of the populations characterized by dark skin color, a definition that also includes certain populations in Oceania, Southeast Asia[1][2], and the southern Middle East[3]. [link to external website]
Ms Diva On A Dime
"He is of Portuguese descent and African by birth."
He has never stated he was anything other than "White", he has and wants to claim Africa as his place of birth and who can Legally Deny that ?
This goes right back to what others have stated on this same thread the term "African-American" can be seen as ambiguous.
1. His Race-White
2. His Origin of Birth-Africa
You can't legally deny if African Birth Right because he was born in Africa. That is the fact the man was born in Africa.
I have seen this term since it was coined in the late 1980's go from an All Encompassing for Black People in America to only those who descend from West African Slave Trade. I do not use the term because the term opens up Questions such as this current litigation in NJ and I’m of Free Black Ancestry from the James Town Settlement to be technical. When you break this entire case down Logically and Legally these facts are
1. Race-White 2. Origin-Africa 3. Country-Mozambican 4. Naturalized-American
When you see a people from Japan, Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, or China they legally claim being South East Asian.
His Case is an Origin Of Birth Not; A Race Issue He is A “White African” since he was born 45 years ago his Birth Certificate is from: “Portuguese East Africa” His Birth certificate actually Has “Africa” on it since It was “Officially Known As “Portuguese East Africa” till 25 June 1975.
-Sarge
Miss Diva On A Dime
Miss Diva On A Dime
“I would ask him to take an Ancestral DNA test and provide it as evidence in court”
Please Read:
Today's global population is extraordinarily diverse; yet we all share one thing in common: DNA that tells us one astonishing message - we are all closely related.
In this series Alice Roberts will show how most of us descend from a tiny group of men and women who left Africa in a perilous crossing - and then went on to colonize the rest of the world.
She will explain how all Europeans living today are descended from just a handful of women, why different ethnic groups look the way they do, what makes some of us able to tolerate milk and alcohol, and why others are great at conserving heat.
Alice Roberts will interrogate the evidence to address mysteries including how our ancestors reached Australia without boats and what happened when they came face-to-face with other human species like Homo erectus.
She will also explore how they overcame extraordinary challenges - from supervolcanoes to climatic disaster - to become the people we are today. human journey, dr alice roberts,
Dr Alice Roberts travels the globe to discover the incredible story of how humans left Africa to colonize the world - overcoming hostile terrain, extreme weather and other species of human. She pieces together precious fragments of bone, stone and new DNA evidence and discovers how this journey changed these African ancestors into the people of today. Alice travels to Africa in search of the birthplace of the first people. They were so few in number and so vulnerable that today they would probably be considered an endangered species. So what allowed them to survive at all? The Bushmen of the Kalahari have some answers - the unique design of the human body made them efficient hunters and the ancient click language of the Bushmen points to an early ability to organize and plan. Humans survived there, but Africa was to all intents and purposes a sealed continent. So how and by what route did humans make it out of Africa? Astonishing genetic evidence reveals that everyone alive today who is not African descends from just one successful, tiny group which left the continent in a single crossing, an event that may have happened around 70 thousand years ago. But how did they do it? Alice goes searching for clues in the remote Arabian Desert. [link to external website]
Mr Paulo Serodio Is From Africa and
Case Closed!
-Sarge
Okay, black people need to wake up. There has been unlimited case studies such as The Real Eve, and not too long ago MTO posted an image of what the first Europeans looked like, and black people were supportive that all ethnicities including European came from Africa. NOW…when a white man born in Africa claims himself as an African many people become irate at the thought. Firstly, any racial classification is racist within itself because we are all the same, deep down as far as we each require the same elements to be classified as human in our genetic makeup. The only difference is our traits and characteristics embedded / encoded in our DNA. It’s fair to say we all have DNA though…for years whites disassociated themselves with the black race, now when there are some who identify with it blacks become angry. So if every ethnicity originated from Africa, thus migrating to their current region, why the hell do blacks get angry when other ethnic groups actually acknowledge their heritage? How can blacks be angry when whites and others discriminate against them, when we not only discriminate against others, but we discriminate against ourselves more than any other group. Get real, either you accept all ethnicities originated in Africa, or you believe that everyone sprouted up on their own? Which is it? Everyone is from Africa, the only difference being, due to climate changes in other regions, groups adapted in order to increase their chances of survival. Lighter shaded people were in colder climates, darker shaded were in hotter climates…and nobody on this earth is completely anything. We’ve been mixing for years, check out the show on PBS where they were tracing people’s ancestry and a woman who believed herself to be entirely Caucasian actually had more African traits in her genetic makeup than the “African” American who was tested. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, we’re all the same.
